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PAW2 – Sarah Levesque

Joshua Ling 0:05
Today on our general speaks with Tara Lebec of logo Sofia magazine about wordsmithing fruitfulness and fighting the culture of death. You are now about to enter the war zone. This is poets at war

Sarah Levesque 0:40
juggling too many things.

Joshua Ling 0:41
Yeah. Let’s talk about some of those things. I know logo. Sofia, how much time is that actually like taking up?

Sarah Levesque 0:49
Well, it is not a mag month, not till next month. Oh, it’s probably only taking up an hour or two a week right now, okay? Next month that travels if not quadruples, right. And then it just gets heavier and heavier workload until the end of the month. And then the first week of November, I’m just like, it’ll be at least 12 hours a week, which on top of my full time job, and whatever else is going on. It’s gonna be a lot, but it’ll be fine. I’ll manage.

Joshua Ling 1:26
You’re gonna tell us more about LEGO Sophia here in a second. Let me just say one time for my audience. If you hear kids crying, it’s too bad. Just because they’re my kids, they’re gonna be in the room, they’re gonna be out of the room, they’re gonna be all over the place. You’re gonna have to deal with it. It’s part of the podcast, because we’re actually building up warriors here. We’re building up arrows to be shooting right now. And they’re in training. So you’re gonna hear war sounds in the background? So, Sarah, tell us about logo. Sophia. What is logo? Sophie, I know that you’re kind of your main passion project. And correct me if I’m wrong, but that seems to be your main passion project lately? And tell tell the people about it.

Sarah Levesque 2:06
I mean, if my passion project, you mean something I don’t get paid for then yes, it is certainly my passion project. Y’all

Joshua Ling 2:12
have those? Let’s be real.

Sarah Levesque 2:17
So logo, Sofia magazine is a quarterly magazine with a regular blog that we put out weekly, a couple a couple times a week. And what we do is we try to build bridges between the different Christian denominations, by posting things that are written by people of various denominations to kind of explain, hey, here’s where I’m coming from. And this is what we believe. So each of our issues corresponds to our yearly theme, which changes every year. So, for example, this year’s theme we have, it’s acts of mercy. So our theme for our first issue of this year, our winter issue, we did spiritual works of mercy, we’ve done corporal works of mercy. Our summer issue was based on evangelization. And our Fall issue is going to be justice and mercy. So it’s a lot of fun. That’s fantastic. It does take a good deal of my time, during mag months, which is the month that we just have to get everything done before, which is the month before they come out.

Joshua Ling 3:37
That’s a digital magazine. For those who are wondering, we are working on print, we are working on all those other sorts of things. And I say we because I’m heavily involved in the audio version. So if anyone wants to listen to that, yeah. If anyone wants to listen to that they can go look it up logo Sophia magazine on any of your normal pod catchers. We have it posted through anchor.fm. So you can check that out? Um, what what is what was the impetus for bringing on logo Sophia into your life? And how does it fit into the culture war that we’re dealing with now? Where do you see this? Building bridges or doing whatever it is like give give your vision for logo Sophia a little bit and how you came up with it?

Sarah Levesque 4:26
Okay, well, for the record, I did not come up with it. It was entirely God’s idea. Um, I’ve been working on magazine since 2014. And it was just kind of a thing that I did. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the editing. I enjoyed the writing. And in 2019, there was some friction going on between myself and the magazine that I was currently working at. And I just brought it to God and prayer and I’ve said that Okay, God, like, do you want me to continue working here? Because this is just a whole lot of friction here. Do you want me to work here? Do you want me to do something else? Do you have another magazine I’m supposed to be working on because again, I love the work. Or do you just want me to quit, like, Give me something. And he did. I was prayer journaling at the time, and I just came up with this one word, Blaze. And it did not come from Me. I don’t know if you’ve ever had that experience, where you definitely get something that’s not from you. And you know, cuz you’re in prayer, and you, you know that it’s from God. And I just got this word Blaze, which seems ironic, because it hasn’t doesn’t seem to have anything to do with logos. But it was the beginning of a kind of I don’t know how to describe it wasn’t a torrent more like a, like, sprinkling of rain, of ideas of information, of like, this is this is what we’re doing. This is where you’re going and you’re going to make a magazine. And it’s going to be set up in this way. And it’s going to be to help build the kingdom of God on earth. And I had a song come into my head, which is I love this song. It’s by run collective, and it’s called Build Your kingdom here. And I was like, Okay, I guess we’re building the kingdom. On Earth. More, we’re gonna build it up with a magazine. That has to do with uniting different denominations. So I reached out to some of you, you were one of the first couple, I think, the first game right and UK Wilson,

Joshua Ling 6:54
which we’re gonna have on the podcast soon.

Sarah Levesque 6:57
Yeah. So I reached out to Ian and tk Wilson. And some other people have asked like, hey, so this is what’s up. And you were part of that fairly early on. So we just figured it out, like, Okay, we’re gonna do this, or this, or gonna do that or the other thing. Until December of that year, we kind of have everything figured out. So December 2019, we started running things on the blog. And our first issue was published, I believe, in February of 2020.

Joshua Ling 7:34
Just before everything due,

Sarah Levesque 7:37
yeah, before the world ended.

Joshua Ling 7:43
Not bad. That is, that is crazy, though. And I found so many things. I’m finding so many things that began like right before, and just thinking back to it. Yeah, this is one of them. And I’ll just say like, you and I have particularly interesting doctrinal differences. And you, as a Roman Catholic, really, really pushed me hard because you really wanted that hard edge reformed kind of side of things. And I even though we have dis disagreements, we both were into the exact same kind of thing, so geeky, fun adventures and that sort of thing. And that’s kind of where we were at the previous magazine. And I think we’ve learned a lot about each other through that, you know, there’s there’s a, I’ve had plenty of Catholic friends of mine in my life growing up. And I think it’s just, I tend to even in my circles have a little bit more of a sacramental idea of reality. How everything is, for God’s glory, to God’s glory Roman, they ended Romans 11. And it’s, it’s one of those things that I think logo Sophia, correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to have even ministered to yourself built up yourself in a way through the education of different beliefs of Scripture and all that sort of thing. Just yeah.

Sarah Levesque 9:02
What is the whole one of the whole things behind logo, Sophia, one of the things that God really put on my heart before he even gave me the idea this magazine was that we need more dialogue between people of different Christian denominations, because we have this, this disconnect in our world, where people of different denominations either don’t associate with each other, or they don’t talk about their differences and their similarities while they are hanging out or whatever. And I actually had a friend who I was talking about a group chat, that you’re actually part of Josh, and I was talking about a group chat and I was like, oh, yeah, we have different different people from different denominations. And we all get to talk about our faith. And we get to talk about our similarities, you know, differences. We don’t even like argue we just discussed and then it’s great. And my friend was like, wait, you can do that. Right. And this is a perfectly lovely individual, who is a well rounded individual. And just the fact that this friend of mine didn’t realise that this was even something that was doable. Right was kind of astounding. And also within that group chat, I realised how much I didn’t know. Right? Like, I am well versed in my own faith, my own traditions. But I didn’t know anything about what you believed, right? I knew nothing about other denominations, whether they were Presbyterian, or Baptist, or whatever it was, right? Hey, I had no idea what they believed. Right. And that was a problem. So that group chat certainly helped me out with that. And it was a big factor in logo Sophia, as it is today.

Joshua Ling 11:07
And one of the things that, you know, the audience for this, at least initially, I think, is going to be more on my persuasion of things. And we tend to be very up in arms about sort of things, and rightfully so in a lot of cases. But here’s the thing that I really want to get across to people is, I have not, you know, anything that is an actual differentiating factor between me and Sarah, I’ve not bowed to and I don’t think you’ve bagged any of mine. However, that’s okay. The fact that the fact is, you and I are friends, and we are on the same side of this culture war, we’re on the same side of everything that’s going on in the United States and in the world. We’re building Christ’s kingdom, even though I think it should be built one way and you should it should be built another way. And we probably even you know, don’t mean this in like a literal sense. But it powers Yeah, exactly. Where we’re building two different two different sides of a wall, you know, I’m saying it’s gonna look completely different on the other side, but God, draw straight lines are crooked sticks, no matter who crooked stick is, no matter what side is what and just the fact that I know that builder on the other side of the fence. And I know that if someone comes along, you know, if we’re using more metaphor, in the trenches, someone of the enemy comes along, trying to shoot me that I know, Sarah has got my back. I know that I’ve got her back. And the fact is building up people who love the Lord, regardless of what they think of him and the specifics of who he is, and his general nature, which is a very honestly, knowing you and actually going into detail. There’s very little difference in what we believe about, actually Christ. That that’s the thing. He is our king, He is our Lord. And He is the one who we’re marching into battle with.

Sarah Levesque 12:59
Absolutely. So when we are marching into battle for

Joshua Ling 13:03
Yeah, exactly. That’s right. That’s right. And so

Sarah Levesque 13:06
what it is interesting, there was a quote, and maybe you know, who said it, or who wrote it. But, okay, now that I started this sentence, I’m trying to remember the actual quote,

Joshua Ling 13:18
paraphrase, no big deal.

Sarah Levesque 13:20
It’s along the lines of, you know, we can we can disagree and be friends. And that is the sign of maturity. Yes.

Joshua Ling 13:32
I don’t know who said that, either. But I agree with the sentiment of it, for sure.

Sarah Levesque 13:38
Yeah, but it’s, it’s definitely amazing how many people can’t do that these days. But that’s, that’s just part of the culture where we have to fight.

Joshua Ling 13:47
So in many ways, you know, in a metaphorical sense, this is like, lubrication. This is building the troops from all different sides of things, your recruiter, that’s really what you are, in the end your recruiter. Right for the cold.

Sarah Levesque 14:01
Like, I’m more of a recruiter than some because of my job, because I teach Catholic theology at a Catholic school. So it’s very, very interesting. I was actually reading from the Bible today. And the Catholic readings for today. Include that, that parable about the seed, the sower of the seed, and some of it falls on the rich crowd. And some of it falls on the path. And I was like, Yeah, this is me. I’m just planting seeds.

Joshua Ling 14:31

Sarah Levesque 14:33
What are the ones that are already there? We’ll see what happens.

Joshua Ling 14:37
I find that that’s one of the big metaphors that gets thrown around with artists, but it’s one of the most true is no matter what kind of art you’re doing no matter what kind of beautification you’re putting upon the world. The fact is, you are planting seeds, you’re planting seeds to go for people to go what is this? Why is it here to ask the questions that humans all too often are Getting away from and more toward, you know, what am I? What am I supposed to do? Right? The second as opposed to what is this for? It’s the metaphysical questions and those those those sorts of things. You know, I think that you and I, in particular, as well as everyone in logo sophea are thinking of more and more even as we iron sharpens iron, you know, talk to each other. And

Sarah Levesque 15:25
it is definitely interesting, though, to see how many people who are of the secular culture, who don’t realise that we need to step back and look at things from a different perspective from a bigger perspective. And it’s just go go go, and don’t stop and think and reflect,

Joshua Ling 15:49
right? Well, Satan only has so many sins, I was gonna say Satan had only has so many plays that he runs. And one of the biggest ones that he’s played in this in this particular culture war, which I date back to the enlightenment, or as my as one of my pastors, who helped raise me called it the endarkenment. The, the the, the fact is, like, the whole idea of secularism, of atheism, the whole idea of this, and without God, I, you know, this whole concept is flawed from the get go. It’s flawed from the beginning. And until, until people start to realise that, you know, the devil can take hold for a time, but but the thing is, this is his entire play, it’s removing all forms of supernaturalism as far as he possibly can. This is why at least I did. I don’t, I don’t, I can’t speak to you. But I grew up with people telling me there’s no such thing as witches, magic, etc, etc. We grew, grew up hearing all these sorts of things, and popular media and we had no idea what was going on. In this in the supernatural realm, we were taught that it didn’t really exist that much, you know, maybe maybe angels and God, but you know, maybe, maybe not all the other stuff. And, you know, we don’t talk about the spiritual thing.

Sarah Levesque 17:16
And my, my growing up years, we had kind of a counterculture. With us, surrounding us. We I was homeschooled through eighth grade, and we were part of a very large Catholic homeschool group, which sort of dovetailed with an even larger Christian homeschool group

Joshua Ling 17:37

Sarah Levesque 17:40
So the culture that we were in was definitely more. Yes, this, these things are real. And you need to be careful,

Joshua Ling 17:50
right? That’s fantastic. So talk to me about the other things you do as an artist and as a person who’s trying to beautify the world and how that dovetails into all the culture war stuff.

Sarah Levesque 18:01
Oh, my. So I mentioned that I am a theology teacher. So that’s always interesting and high school theology. So that’s, it’s a job, but it’s also a vocation. So it’s good. Most of the time, unless I do something quite silly. Like I’ve done this. This upcoming week, I have about 100, and something essays that I’m going to have to go through, which was very bad scheduling on my part.

Joshua Ling 18:33
But immediately when I hear that I immediately go back to CS Lewis and the horse and his boy, talking about storytelling versus essays. You remember that bit?

Sarah Levesque 18:45
Yeah. Well, if I don’t give him the essays, then the essays I assign are, this is basically what I want you to take out of this class for this quarter. Right, right. So it works. So actually, we’re writing about the Kingdom of God. So that overflows quite nicely. But other things I do, I run a young adult group in my area. And I also edit as a freelance editor. I’ve edited some of Ian’s work.

Joshua Ling 19:19
I will say for those who are wondering Ian Wilson, yep.

Sarah Levesque 19:25
I’ve edited it edited. Wow, that is a hard word hard phrase to say. I said all the time, and I still can’t get it right and half the time. Anyway, I do the editing for certain other friends of mine such as Killarney trainer, and other random people that I don’t necessarily know, which is great. Right now. I’m in the middle of a 300 Something page book that I’m editing. And it’s it’s quite interesting, to say the least.

Joshua Ling 19:57
You were telling me a little bit about that earlier. Yeah, that’s Really strange connections and stuff with various characters from different lore. So, yeah, that’s awesome. So where do you see culture wars going at the moment? Where do you see not just like politics, but specifically like the the hearts of the people, and particularly the way that we’re thinking about beauty. Go in and do a period where are bastions of beauty Hollywood wink wink, are kind of kind of broke like everybody else.

Sarah Levesque 20:34
Okay, that was a lot to go on in one, one. Take your time set of questions. So I’m just going to pull randomly out of that not answer everything, because I already forget what the first part was. But, um, it’s definitely interesting how we are opposed to the secular culture, as Christians were opposed to the secular culture, which has, as you mentioned earlier, it has totally pushed away any idea of God. And any idea of the supernatural as real, instead pushing it as fantasy and fiction only. So it’s interesting to see how our political leaders, by and large, tend to be doing things that are not in accord with God’s will. And yet, I can’t believe that the majority of the country is actually behind that. I think that we have lost faith in our politicians, for good reason. And I think that that has brought us to a downfall of actually being involved in politics, too now. And I’m definitely at fault here myself. But it’s having no confidence in politician is definitely difficult to get invested in such things and make sure that we do our darndest to get those proper people into office where they can do good things. Now, interestingly enough, having said that, I was very pleasantly surprised this past week, I believe it was because here in New Hampshire, we’ve had some excellent political news, which I kind of forgot was possible. New Hampshire is not known for being conservative, right. And yet, they are in

Joshua Ling 22:48
a few weird things such as like zoning, they don’t really do zoning a whole lot and a few other because I know tiny house people love New Hampshire for that reason, because there’s not a whole lot of regulation and stuff regarding those sorts of things. But go ahead.

Sarah Levesque 23:02
Yeah, no, we’ve we’ve had some good news on the the abortion front, and it was decided, fantastically miraculously, that the state will no longer fund Planned Parenthood. There was something else that happened to that it was like, Wow, we got a double Good thing this week. But I forget what the other thing was.

Joshua Ling 23:26
That’s all right. People can look that up and see if you’re in that area, you can get involved and see what you can get to happen. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with a lot of local stuff to not necessarily my town, but in some of the various areas around the South, there’s been a lot of things happening. The thing that’s particularly interesting is to me and the thing that I want to touch on briefly with you. There’s this abolitionist movement going on, currently, and a lot of people in the abolitionist movement are and if you don’t want to touch on this, you just fine but they they’ve they’ve done a lot of good work and and and done a lot of good things but they

Sarah Levesque 24:09
pause here for a sec. Abolition of what now. abortion. Okay, thank you.

Joshua Ling 24:15
It’s okay. It’s okay. Yeah, so they they’ve been doing a lot of really good stuff. But and you may not know about these sides a whole lot, especially because the Catholics tend to have their own stake in the matter and stick to their own. But this abolitionist movement basically says that any legislation being passed, that regulates seeks to end abortion through regulation, instead of just straight up. No, we’re done. That’s it. Is is essentially seeking something wrong and unrighteous. We’re incrementalist. We’ve had a problem with a lot of incrementalist on the other side, who have and not all of them there. There’s a lot of good Smash Mouth incrementalist. is what I refer to them as they’re the people who want it done by hook or by crook want to take every little bit of ground that they can get. But then there’s incrementalist to it, especially in the Protestant side, national right to life is one of the worst, where essentially, they believe that they want to be extremely careful with every single little bit of legislation because if it gets overturned in one way or another, that’s bad PR, if it gets overturned at all by Supreme Court and, and they don’t want to put Jesus at the forefront of any of it, they don’t want this to be a Christian thing. They want this to be some homogenous secular beast. And and and they’re not willing to say that this is wrong based upon supernatural moral ethics. So Well, it’s

Sarah Levesque 25:54
interesting, because it is, it is definitely wrong on Supernatural moral ethics. But it’s also wrong from like, even a scientific like horse perspective. Yeah. Because obviously, as we know, like life begins at conception and if we are going along with the Declaration of Independence, Constitution kind of stuff where all human beings have rights. Wallah, you know, QED. But, so you can definitely get it from other perspectives. But to speak to the incrementalist versus whatever the other verb bullishness. abolitionists, I say, we know we’re in a war. If you can just add, abolish it sweet. I am totally all for that. But generally speaking, words are not fought by annihilation wars are fought one step at a time, one foot at a time, one mile at a time

Joshua Ling 26:59
with a goal in mind. Cough, Afghanistan, cough, Vietnam.

Sarah Levesque 27:06
But it’s, I find that a lot of people that are a little more vocal, which doesn’t necessarily mean all people in general, but the vocal ones seem to have some interesting ideas that can turn other people off, I did have a friend, I do still have that friend for the record. But um, and this friend was put up a post on Facebook, regarding abortion that I disagreed with. And I commented on it. And another friend of my friend also commented on it. And what this secondary friend said, was that because people who are against abortion, were also in favour of other things, that were basically hypocritical, that they didn’t believe in anti abortion things. He didn’t believe in the pro life movement simply because certain vocal people were hypocritical.

Joshua Ling 28:28
Yeah, that’s a fallacy. My logic fallacy,

Sarah Levesque 28:31
my friend agreed with this other person. And I’m sitting here being a very logic based person, and I’m looking at this. And I’m like, thinking how, yes, that is a hypocritical stance for whoever that vocal person was to have taken. And yet it’s not an a logical thing to say, oh, this person is wrong on B, therefore, must be wrong on a right and everybody who believes in a must also be wrong, right? It’s a dearth of logic, and it had to be quite upset for a number of hours, actually. But it’s an odd sort of logic that people have these days where that it, it’s not actually logical, right. And I also see people who are argue for the pro choice side, arguing that, you know, nobody wants to have an abortion, which is probably true.

Joshua Ling 29:38
And several, but go ahead.

Sarah Levesque 29:42
That, you know, and that we need to be working to get rid of the reasons why people have abortions instead of working the political side of things. Yeah. Absolutely. We need to hit both sides. Yeah. For myself, I don’t have much, much free time. As you can imagine from what I mentioned earlier, but there is a local home for pregnant women that I do help out with. On occasion, I used to help out with more before I got this theology job. And it’s been a really good blessing for many people. But one thing I find amusing and I’m talking a lot, but that’s one thing I find interesting in a Riley dry amusing sort of way, is when I see those posts on Facebook, from, you know, some random thing that has, you know, a couple 1000 quotes on it, or a couple 1000 comments on it already. And it’s like, oh, you believe in, you know, anti abortion, but what are you you’re not doing anything about it. And then all these people are commenting like, Well, I do this, and I do that. And I do this, that and the other thing, and you can go through and read it, and you can see all the Catholics, because they’re like, Oh, I work with this Catholic organisation. I do that with this Catholic organisation. And do you have any idea how many Catholic organisations are out there that work on these background problems? Not just, you know, the legislative problems, but like, the whole reasons why women are getting abortions, right. And I have an article that I wrote about that whole thing that is getting republished it needed some tweaking, but it’s getting republished shortly, have to finish a couple of things. So that’s, yeah,

Joshua Ling 31:46
I hear you that’s, that’s really the heart of Smash Mouth, incremental ism is hitting, hitting every play every side. It’s, it’s a war, and you take every advantage you can possibly get. And that’s

Sarah Levesque 31:58
it, we need to, we need to also remember that even though it is a war in one sense, that the war is not against people. And it’s, we need to convert the people and not just bad, not them. Right, which I’m sure you already know. Yeah, many of your listeners already know, but I just had to say it.

Joshua Ling 32:20
There’s a place for biting rhetoric to the conscience. And there’s, there’s and that’s a whole other side of the war too. i My My thing is people who are taking care of women in, in, like you were saying pregnant pregnancy homes and these sorts of thing, and they’re there, they’re on the compassion, end of things probably shouldn’t be practising rhetoric they shot probably shouldn’t be the ones who are on the front lines, preaching against this stuff, and biting hard and politics and doing all these other sorts of things. It is it is a two edged sword, we know we don’t need to be, you know, trying to do everything all at once, you know, different people are called the different acts. And there are people who actually will go out to the particularly rough abortion clinics, and immediately and directly confront not in a screaming way but in a plain logical this is what you are doing and call them straight on their BS, you know, with with real scripture saying you are you stand before the God of the universe guilty about what you are about to do. And you can change you can turn back right now. And that that’s that’s something that when you say clearly it turns into Elijah, nobody liked Elijah. But, but there’s one for Elijah, and there’s room for the Good Samaritan to there’s there’s room for both of those. And they both have to be there.

Sarah Levesque 33:57
It is interesting work working with some teenagers, and seeing, you know, how they are influenced so heavily by our culture, which I believe has been correctly termed the culture of death. And, you know, even though the school that I work with is or that I work at is a, you know, a religious school that doesn’t make all of the students religious. And it is definitely sobering. Yeah. To see the influence of the society on those teams. And you know, I’m over here giving them the truth about Jesus, and you know, the basics. And I’m over here teaching them about, you know, when does human life actually begin and why is this important? write all this sort of stuff. And the truth about marriage and so much of what I teach them is new to them. Or it’s something that they hadn’t thought of even if they’ve heard it before, or it’s something that they hadn’t fully reflected on. And, you know, there’s some of them that are like, oh, yeah, that’s absolutely right. And there are some of them that are more sceptical. Because somehow, you know, I am not the authority in their minds. Right. But culture is what they saw on TV, what they see on social media, that’s the authority.

Joshua Ling 35:44
Right? Yeah. And it’s, it’s a, it’s interesting getting into the the culture of death, like you were saying, that’s one of the big reasons why, in this culture war, the biggest thing that we need to be focused on and this is something that I don’t see, particularly conservatives, particularly conservative Protestants focused on it and and people who are nominal Protestants, you know, the time they are, they are so focused on the direct rhetoric of everything, that they cannot see that this is actually not just an enemy, this is the culture of death. This is anti fruitfulness. On every end of the spectrum, we’re talking about, you know, abortion, homosexuality, we don’t have to go into all the specifics. But every single thing that we have is based in the secular society is based on a lie of sterility. The idea that everything that you ever produce is going to be expensive, or tax in some kind of way. And so instead of actually being fruitful, you should be fruit less, because there’s so much less pressure on you, it’s so much easier. And it’s not just children, like that’s the first thing that pops into our mind, but even like us being writers, right? It’s like us telling stories, what are we often told by people from all kinds of different circles, oh, that’s a hard life, oh, you really have to be good. There’s so much competition, you know, all these other sorts of things. And I, I’ve learned in my life, that that comes from a place with these people of, of love most of the time, and that’s the hard thing. We’re even fighting love on our side that has bought into this lie of sterility.

Sarah Levesque 37:37
Right, and it’s, it’s, a lot of it has to do, I’ve noticed at least with more back to the abortion side of things, it has to do with a love of self. And people. You know, there there are definitely people that are think that it’s loving to say, No, you have to put yourself first, right, instead of you know, putting this unborn child first. So it is definitely interesting how love can be skewed in that way.

Joshua Ling 38:19
Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s perverted and changed. It’s really, you know, the, when you think about it really, really deeply as it goes back to the garden, you you can be as gods, this is about you, this isn’t about what you were created for. This was not the commandment to be fruitful and multiply and 10 the garden and protect it, you know,

Sarah Levesque 38:42
right. But it’s also a fundamental on a bill inability to understand what love is because we have kicked God out of the picture, right? There is no understanding that of agave love of doing the best good for another person, because there is no best good and the mind of the culture. And the fact that we have truth, you know, you can’t have a best good unless you have truth. The fact that there is objective truth is another thing the culture does not understand. Right? Now, of course, there are definitely people within the culture that understand it. But as the culture itself, it does not admit to objective truth,

Joshua Ling 39:28
right? And even I go as far as to say objective beauty. A lot of people go into the idea and I’m not saying this quantitative, you know, objective beauty, but no one looks at a sunset and says they’re disgusting. They either say I’ve seen better or Wow. Right? Like it’s in its own category of beautiful now you can put that on a spectrum of how beautiful it is, you know, and rate it as compared to other sunsets. But the fact is sunset is beautiful, objectively, right? And so this is this is one of those things that when you begin to move away into a more relativistic idea, you’re moving away from the idea that God defines everything because he created it in the first place. And not only that, but he also judges everything that we make as sub creators on the same spectrum of goodness and beauty because he’s unchangeable. And that’s why it’s important to write these good stories and make these good things and hand them down to our children for generations and generations as as tokens of what we truly believe. And and the the tenacity with which we believe it. One of the biggest things that my father gave me, a outside of great teaching on the Scripture is Narnia and Lord of the Rings to reinforce the beauty of that truth. That was the whole point that he gave me with with Lord of the Rings and Narnia and music, I’ll even put music in that same category. It he, he loved absolutely everything. He was a prog rock guy back in the 70s. So he, he loved absolutely every type of music imaginable. And he was able to pick out the good and just about every kind of music imaginable. And so like, with him, his love of these things, and seeing him emotionally affected by these things, showed that he really, truly believed what he said about Scripture.

Sarah Levesque 41:42
Yeah, you know, and,

Joshua Ling 41:45
and that’s the thing when if you as a parent are or a teacher or whatever, if you’re an authority figure in a child’s life, and you are not modelling affection toward God, affection toward beauty, affection toward the good things in this world, they’re not going to know what is good or bad or whatever else.

Sarah Levesque 42:06
That right. definitely interesting to think about religion, as you know, obviously, its relationship with God, and not just a Sunday thing, and you know, this full well. But, again, this is something that I see in the people around me and in students and things like there are some people that just get it like, okay, yes, this is my life. God’s in charge, or, you know, God’s the foundation. And this is this is what’s up. And then there are people that are like, okay, yo, I want to charge check that box off. I’m good for a week that you this is a relationship. You can’t just give somebody an hour a week for your relationship, and it’s gonna be good.

Joshua Ling 42:56
Try being married that way.

Sarah Levesque 42:59
Okay. Oh, boy, no, it is definitely something that is supposed to permeate our entire lives. And so many people are not living that way. You know, they claim to be Christian, and they don’t live it every day. And I think that’s part of probably a large part of our problem here is that people these days are used to seeing these nominal Christians. Whatever denomination they happen to be. There’s plenty of Catholic ones I know. These nominal Christians that don’t actually practice anything, right? Or if they do, it’s very minimalistic, right. So I feel like that has had a giant negative called negative impact on our culture as we just let things slide

Joshua Ling 44:06
Yeah, yeah, I hear that. So with our last couple minutes here and everything you can take your time I have eight minutes by what I’m looking at for ending the cop I’m trying to keep these two an hour recording and then they end up being whatever they are in between. I was uh, I was wondering you know, specifically talking to people who might be in your you know, end of things where you’re just really fond of working with words being a wordsmith playing around with these sorts of things and and you know, maybe you want to be an editor maybe you want to be a writer maybe you want to talk write nonfiction fiction, whatever it is. You have this particular affinity for words. This is like Little Sarah avec, right. This is this is this is the little Sarah avec from five years ago. Okay. What advice are you got? to give to that person in regard to what we’re talking about here specifically like and I’m not saying like literal Sir, I’m saying now a five year old five, five year less sterile avec, right? I’m not saying Okay, watch out for COVID. I’m not saying I’m not saying that. I’m saying you’ve got someone just like you loves words, loves the Lord has this passion wants to do all these sorts of things, and they’re just frustrated in their own way. What is your advice to them on how to deal with these things? And how to be fruitful in their area?

Sarah Levesque 45:37
Really good question. So I guess just chance to answer this off the cuff? I would say, No, no, your relationship with God. First, of course, that that’s the basis for everything you got to know, know who God is, and know where to put him in your life, you know, as the foundation as the first thing. And then once you have that relationship with God, I mean, it’s not that everything’s going to be easy, because Heck, no, it’s not going to be easy. But you can have that foundation. And when you do go, and you write something, you can ask God, okay, what do you think, what should I be writing? How is this going to work? Right, and you have that, that sort of backup. And you can always ask the Holy Spirit to help you too, because he knows a lot about creating things God does. And even just asking him to be able to tap into his beauty, and his, his logic and his structures organisation. It’s so helpful. And if thought has put something on your heart, whether it’s an idea whether it’s a character, whether it’s a plot, run with it, because if he has put it on your heart, it’s either going to be something that will teach you something, or it will help other people.

Joshua Ling 47:21
And let me point out to those who are immediately going, Disney bad. Follow your heart bad. Here’s, here’s the thing. Yes, heartful is wicked and deceitful above all else. But notice the sequence of what she said, your relationship with God, at the centre, as the foundation. And then then you can trust your heart. If you are in the word, if you are studying, if you are going to church, if you are doing all these things, and not just doing them on the outside, but doing them on the inside. The fact is, your insides will be changed because the Holy Spirit promises that in Scripture. Go ahead.

Sarah Levesque 48:01
Yeah. So it’s not what your heart decides is a good idea right now. It’s what God puts on your heart, right? And with intellectual or intellectual things, like stories, sometimes it’s in your head. And sometimes you don’t know that, God put it in your heart or not. But run with it and see, you know, there you can, once you have that relationship with God, you can look at something and say, okay, yeah, this is a godly thing. Or you can say, No, this is not pulling me closer to God, this is pulling me away from God. And I have to fix that either by stopping entirely or by adjusting what I’m doing and changing the trajectory. So I’m focused and pointed to God again. And that’s the thing

Joshua Ling 48:45
even if you get off the rails, he can pull you back. You know, you gotta you gotta keep praying. Gotta keep discerning that’s, that’s all gifts of the Spirit right there. Yeah.

Sarah Levesque 48:54
And it’s not that everything has to overtly point to God, because that turns off a lot of people. But if he’s your foundation, then you’re probably going to be upset. Yeah, it’s not necessarily going to be financially great. It’s not necessarily going to be a best hit whatever genre you’re working with. But if it brings you closer to God, if it brings other people closer to God, I don’t think there’s anything greater than that.

Joshua Ling 49:35
Yeah. Oh, that’s fantastic. Sara where can they find you on the internet?

Sarah Levesque 49:41
I can be well loco Sofia can be found at logo Sofia mag.org is it.org.com. Hang on pause to edit that.

Joshua Ling 49:52
So big

Sarah Levesque 49:53
is calm. I was wrong. Okay, so you can find logo Sophia at low josephian mag comm I’m definitely there. I also have my own website, which is start Lobeck SAR Lovak at or excuse me, sar livex.wordpress.com. And that’s my editor site. And most of the stuff that I have written are linked up to there in some, some form, including logo, Sophia.

Joshua Ling 50:29
Well, everyone, we appreciate you being here and we’ll talk to you next time. Remember, this is part of the you let me try that again. I don’t remember exactly what my phrase is, but I’m going to throw a new one new pithy one every time until I have one that sticks. Remember, you are a part of this culture war, whether you like to be or not. You are a soldier in God’s army. If you’re a Christian and you march forward to his glory in His Kingdom, talk to you all next time. God All right, Ciao. Ciao